{"id":17299,"date":"2021-10-11T10:41:22","date_gmt":"2021-10-11T07:41:22","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/mmfidawla.com\/?p=17299"},"modified":"2021-10-11T10:41:28","modified_gmt":"2021-10-11T07:41:28","slug":"interview-with-charbel-nahhas","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/mmfidawla.com\/fr\/2021\/10\/11\/interview-with-charbel-nahhas\/","title":{"rendered":"Charbel Nahas : \u00ab\u2009Le nouveau gouvernement libanais est dangereux\u2009\u00bb"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<style type=\"text\/css\" data-created_by=\"avia_inline_auto\" id=\"style-css-av-4qhcvh-39b5c39c192e9822cc2af8d23396cadb\">\n.flex_column.av-4qhcvh-39b5c39c192e9822cc2af8d23396cadb{\nborder-radius:0px 0px 0px 0px;\npadding:0px 0px 0px 0px;\n}\n<\/style>\n<div  class='flex_column av-4qhcvh-39b5c39c192e9822cc2af8d23396cadb av_three_fourth  avia-builder-el-0  el_before_av_one_fourth  avia-builder-el-first  first flex_column_div av-zero-column-padding  '     ><section  class='av_textblock_section av-jo02aj9o-2c91b504919fcfba30aa0fcc9afad91c '   itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/BlogPosting\" itemprop=\"blogPost\" ><div class='avia_textblock'  itemprop=\"text\" ><h1>Charbel Nahas : \u00ab\u2009Le nouveau gouvernement libanais est dangereux\u2009\u00bb<\/h1>\n<\/div><\/section><br \/>\n<div  class='hr av-36ctod-04a0923b74485b06d58a63d634bda0b4 hr-default  avia-builder-el-2  el_after_av_textblock  el_before_av_textblock '><span class='hr-inner '><span class=\"hr-inner-style\"><\/span><\/span><\/div><br \/>\n<section  class='av_textblock_section av-jpa4dlb3-7aba5a256187ade9efe09863963a89fb '   itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/BlogPosting\" itemprop=\"blogPost\" ><div class='avia_textblock'  itemprop=\"text\" ><p>Un article par Pierre Barbancey publi\u00e9jeudi le 7 octobre 2021 dans \u00ab\u00a0l&rsquo;humanit\u00e9\u00a0\u00bb sur ce <a href=\"https:\/\/www.humanite.fr\/charbel-nahas-le-nouveau-gouvernement-libanais-est-dangereux-723021\">lien<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>Pierre Barbancey<br \/>\nL\u2019\u00e9conomiste libanais Charbel Nahas d\u00e9nonce les petits arrangements entre formations confessionnelles et la nomination d\u2019un nouveau premier ministre, qui visent \u00e0 perp\u00e9tuer leur main-mise sur le pays du C\u00e8dre. Entretien.<\/p>\n<p>CHARBEL NAHAS<br \/>\nSecr\u00e9taire g\u00e9n\u00e9ral de Citoyens et citoyennes dans un \u00c9tat<\/p>\n<p>Charbel NahasSecr\u00e9taire g\u00e9n\u00e9ral de Citoyens et citoyennes dans un \u00c9tat<\/p>\n<p>Dans son dernier ouvrage, Rituel du non-\u00c9tat communautaire. \u00c9lections l\u00e9gislatives libanaises, 2016-2019 , Charbel Nahas invite \u00e0 la r\u00e9flexion sur les significations des \u00e9lections, sur les comportements r\u00e9ciproques des acteurs politiques et des \u00e9lecteurs, et, au final, sur la l\u00e9gitimit\u00e9 du pouvoir. Il revient sur la crise qui frappe son pays. Un Liban qui exp\u00e9rimente depuis longtemps la financiarisation et le communautarisme.<br \/>\n<strong>Le Liban est-il en train de sortir de la crise\u2009?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Charbel Nahas: Certainement pas. Bien au contraire. Il faut remettre les choses en perspective. Le Liban a v\u00e9cu pendant pr\u00e8s de quarante ans sous un r\u00e9gime qui a bien \u00e9videmment eu des effets sur la soci\u00e9t\u00e9 libanaise. C\u2019est \u00e7a, le pouvoir\u2009: la mise en place d\u2019un ensemble de r\u00e8gles qui g\u00e8rent la soci\u00e9t\u00e9. Ce syst\u00e8me libanais fonctionne \u00e0 partir d\u2019\u00e9quilibres tr\u00e8s pr\u00e9cis, entre trois p\u00f4les. L\u2019un \u2013 constitu\u00e9 des anciens chefs de guerre, chefs de milice \u2013 assume une distribution politis\u00e9e et s\u00e9lective d\u2019avantages, de b\u00e9n\u00e9fices, de rentes. Chacun le fait dans le cadre de sa communaut\u00e9, de mani\u00e8re cloisonn\u00e9e. On peut appeler cela de la corruption mais, en r\u00e9alit\u00e9, c\u2019est le syst\u00e8me lui-m\u00eame qui est corrompu. C\u2019est une op\u00e9ration de distribution en permanence. Entre 1990 et 2019, le Liban a re\u00e7u, en mouvements de capitaux net, un montant d\u2019environ 250 milliards de dollars. C\u2019est quelque chose de fou. C\u2019est sept \u00e0 huit ann\u00e9es de PIB. En pouvoir d\u2019achat constant, c\u2019est sup\u00e9rieur \u00e0 ce que le plan Marshall a apport\u00e9 \u00e0 l\u2019Europe occidentale apr\u00e8s la guerre. Pour que cette machine de distribution marche, il y a besoin d\u2019une pompe qui aspire les capitaux.<\/p>\n<p>Il y a un second p\u00f4le, qui est le p\u00f4le financier. Il incorpore les banques, la banque centrale, les op\u00e9rations fonci\u00e8res\u2026 dont la fonction est d\u2019aspirer les capitaux en permanence. Essentiellement venant des \u00e9migr\u00e9s libanais, mais on parle \u00e9galement de capitaux politiques, que ce soit de l\u2019Occident, de l\u2019Iran ou de certains r\u00e9gimes arabes. C\u2019est une fonction vitale. Chacun des chefs de milice (ou de communaut\u00e9) se trouve inf\u00e9od\u00e9 \u00e0 des acteurs externes. Qu\u2019ils soient r\u00e9gionaux ou internationaux\u2009: les \u00c9tats-Unis, la France, l\u2019Arabie saoudite, l\u2019Iran\u2026 C\u2019est un troisi\u00e8me p\u00f4le, m\u00eame s\u2019il est externe, qui est n\u00e9cessaire pour maintenir en place les chefs de milice, mais aussi pour permettre \u00e0 la pompe aspirante des capitaux de fonctionner. C\u2019est un triangle tr\u00e8s sophistiqu\u00e9. Ce syst\u00e8me est aussi doublement autodestructeur puisqu\u2019il cr\u00e9e en permanence des dettes \u2013 on les appelle d\u00e9p\u00f4ts. Mais ce sont ces m\u00eames capitaux qui sont redistribu\u00e9s en interne pour financer notamment la consommation. Ce sont des pertes qui s\u2019accumulent en permanence. Deuxi\u00e8me accumulation\u2009: pour ramener les sous, il faut n\u00e9cessairement qu\u2019il y ait un flux d\u2019\u00e9migration et donc cela vide le pays de sa population. Une population qu\u2019on va remplacer en faisant venir des pauvres gars de l\u2019autre bout du monde, d\u2019Afrique ou d\u2019Asie du Sud ou des Syriens venus \u00e0 cause de la guerre civile. Et qui ne sont pas du tout pris en compte dans le syst\u00e8me. En 2018-2019, le p\u00f4le financier a explos\u00e9 g\u00e9n\u00e9rant des manifestations. Le p\u00f4le politique des chefs communautaires a \u00e9t\u00e9 tr\u00e8s embarrass\u00e9. \u00c0 ce moment-l\u00e0, il y avait un gouvernement d\u2019union nationale o\u00f9 toute la bande \u00e9tait repr\u00e9sent\u00e9e. Ils ont sorti un soi-disant plan de sauvetage, mais ils se sont rendu compte que \u00e7a ne marchait pas. Ils se sont alors divis\u00e9s en deux cat\u00e9gories. L\u2019une, disant que c\u2019\u00e9tait une r\u00e9volution, a envoy\u00e9 ses troupes participer aux manifestations. L\u2019autre consid\u00e9rait que c\u2019\u00e9tait un complot, qu\u2019il fallait tenir et, pour cela, ils ont emp\u00each\u00e9 leurs affid\u00e9s de participer aux manifestations, voire les ont employ\u00e9s pour intimider les manifestants. Mais en fait, les uns et les autres avaient la m\u00eame lecture.<\/p>\n<p><strong>La nomination d\u2019Hassane Diab au poste de premier ministre, en janvier 2020, \u00e9tait-elle un leurre\u2009? Comment est-on arriv\u00e9 \u00e0 un accord d\u00e9signant Najib Mikati pour diriger le nouveau gouvernement\u2009?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Charbel Nahas: C\u2019\u00e9tait un paravent. Ce gouvernement a fait appel \u00e0 des experts qui ont fait une estimation des pertes pour essayer de n\u00e9gocier avec les cr\u00e9anciers, le Fonds mon\u00e9taire international\u2026 D\u00e8s le moment o\u00f9 les chefs communautaires ont senti que le p\u00f4le financier \u00e9tait menac\u00e9 par la mise en avant des pertes, ils se sont imm\u00e9diatement r\u00e9unis et ce malgr\u00e9 leurs conflits quant aux enjeux r\u00e9gionaux. Ils ont voulu \u00e9tablir une d\u00e9fense forte du p\u00f4le financier qui, dans ces conditions, s\u2019est remis \u00e0 fonctionner. Avec des magouilles, notamment l\u2019existence de trois \u00e0 quatre taux de change, les d\u00e9p\u00f4ts se sont \u00e9vapor\u00e9s. Mais le pouvoir d\u2019achat des Libanais s\u2019est effondr\u00e9. S\u2019est alors mis en branle un m\u00e9canisme d\u2019ajustement excessivement dur. Les gens \u00e9taient dans le d\u00e9sespoir, aggrav\u00e9 par l\u2019explosion du port de Beyrouth en ao\u00fbt 2020. Subitement, depuis un ou deux mois, la r\u00e9action est venue de l\u2019ext\u00e9rieur. Des signes ont commenc\u00e9 \u00e0 appara\u00eetre\u2009: le retrait am\u00e9ricain d\u2019Afghanistan, les r\u00e9unions tenues \u00e0 Bagdad avec les pays arabes et en pr\u00e9sence de la France, les contacts saoudo-iraniens, l\u2019entretien\u2026 Les chefs communautaires, pariant tous sur un arrangement r\u00e9gional, confiants que le rouleau compresseur tenu par le courant financier \u00e9tait bien en marche, ont d\u00e9cid\u00e9 de confier la gestion de cette phase directement \u00e0 la cellule financi\u00e8re avec la b\u00e9n\u00e9diction ext\u00e9rieure. La banque centrale g\u00e8re. Le gouvernement est dirig\u00e9 par un milliardaire qui a empoch\u00e9 des milliards dans des op\u00e9rations de t\u00e9l\u00e9phonie mobile au Liban, en Syrie et sur le continent africain. Les forces ext\u00e9rieures appuient cela car elles cherchent \u00e0 calmer le jeu au Liban dans le cadre des mises en place r\u00e9gionales. Avec, sans aucun doute, des contrats en vue \u00e0 droite ou \u00e0 gauche, au Liban, mais aussi en Syrie.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Y aura-t-il des \u00e9lections dans quelques mois\u2009?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Charbel Nahas: Ce nouveau gouvernement est dangereux, car il table sur le fait que les gens sont d\u00e9sesp\u00e9r\u00e9s, que la cellule financi\u00e8re a r\u00e9ussi \u00e0 mater la r\u00e9probation et que l\u2019ext\u00e9rieur a donn\u00e9 sa b\u00e9n\u00e9diction. Son test maintenant est de savoir s\u2019il va tenir des \u00e9lections ou pas. Si les tenants de ce pouvoir les organisent, cela signifie qu\u2019ils se sentent suffisamment confiants pour r\u00e9tablir la l\u00e9gitimit\u00e9 de ce syst\u00e8me au prix de la destruction de ce qui reste de la soci\u00e9t\u00e9. Nous sommes en confrontation directe avec tout cela.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Quelle vision avez-vous pour le Liban\u2009?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Charbel Nahas: Nous sommes toujours dans la crise. Mais l\u2019adversaire a marqu\u00e9 des points. Pour nous, entre la restauration de la l\u00e9gitimit\u00e9 de ce syst\u00e8me politico-\u00e9conomique et la dilapidation de la mati\u00e8re humaine de la soci\u00e9t\u00e9, le combat est engag\u00e9. Nous nous positionnons pour rendre la vie la plus difficile possible \u00e0 ce gouvernement et \u00e0 ce qu\u2019il repr\u00e9sente. Pour cela, nous sommes engag\u00e9s \u00e0 fond sur la mobilisation dans la structure de classes de la soci\u00e9t\u00e9 libanaise. Mais il est tr\u00e8s difficile de mobiliser les cat\u00e9gories ouvri\u00e8res, parce qu\u2019\u00e0 plus de 80 % il s\u2019agit de travailleurs immigr\u00e9s sans leur famille et qui sont en situation transitoire. Il est aussi difficile de mobiliser les travailleurs syriens qui portent avec eux les stigmates d\u2019une guerre civile horrible. Par cons\u00e9quent, la classe sociale mobilisable est la petite bourgeoisie professionnelle, c\u2019est-\u00e0-dire les avocats, les ing\u00e9nieurs, les enseignants, les infirmi\u00e8res. Ces professions repr\u00e9sentent la majorit\u00e9 de la population active libanaise r\u00e9sidente. Elles sont organis\u00e9es dans des ordres professionnels, qui disposaient d\u2019une \u00e9pargne sociale consid\u00e9rable. Celle-ci a fondu car plac\u00e9e dans le m\u00e9canisme financier. Il s\u2019agit donc pour nous d\u2019imposer un clivage entre la base sociale (constitu\u00e9e en grande partie de ces cat\u00e9gories) et les chefs communautaires cens\u00e9s les repr\u00e9senter individuellement. Et d\u2019imposer une confrontation dure avec la bande financ\u00e9e maintenant repr\u00e9sent\u00e9e au gouvernement, qui va ramener le FMI. Nous voulons ainsi donner un coup \u00e0 la structure politique et changer le rapport de forces.<\/p>\n<p>liban<br \/>\ncharbel nahas<\/p>\n<\/div><\/section><br \/>\n<div  class='av-buildercomment av-av_comments_list-efc336e1980f90400772811f3c75511f'><\/div><br \/>\n<div  class='hr av-2929i4-777fc9eaf0f801963dab2bdf922e9490 hr-default  avia-builder-el-5  el_after_av_comments_list  el_before_av_social_share '><span class='hr-inner '><span class=\"hr-inner-style\"><\/span><\/span><\/div><br \/>\n<div  class='av-social-sharing-box av-ao6m0-3fe04660fe53d2dfce528be7b45e8fb8 av-social-sharing-box-default  avia-builder-el-6  el_after_av_hr  avia-builder-el-last  av-social-sharing-box-fullwidth'><div class=\"av-share-box\"><h5 class='av-share-link-description av-no-toc '>Share this entry<\/h5><ul class=\"av-share-box-list noLightbox\"><li class='av-share-link av-social-link-facebook' ><a target=\"_blank\" aria-label=\"Partager sur Facebook\" 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class=\"entry-footer\"><\/footer><\/article><article class='av-magazine-entry av-magazine-entry-id-17299 av-magazine-format-standard av-magazine-type-post av-magazine-entry-6 av-magazine-entry-small '  itemscope=\"itemscope\" itemtype=\"https:\/\/schema.org\/BlogPosting\" itemprop=\"blogPost\" ><div class=\"av-magazine-thumbnail\"><a href='https:\/\/mmfidawla.com\/fr\/2021\/10\/11\/interview-with-charbel-nahhas\/' title='Lier vers : Charbel Nahas : \u00ab\u2009Le nouveau gouvernement libanais est dangereux\u2009\u00bb' class='av-magazine-thumbnail-link'><img decoding=\"async\" fetchpriority=\"high\" width=\"80\" height=\"80\" src=\"https:\/\/mmfidawla.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/10\/Article-web-80x80.png\" class=\"wp-image-17300 avia-img-lazy-loading-not-17300 attachment-thumbnail size-thumbnail wp-post-image\" alt=\"\" srcset=\"https:\/\/mmfidawla.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/10\/Article-web-80x80.png 80w, 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class=\"av-magazine-content-wrap\"><header class=\"entry-content-header\"><time class='av-magazine-time updated'  itemprop=\"datePublished\" datetime=\"\" ><\/time><h3 class='av-magazine-title entry-title '  itemprop=\"headline\" ><a href='https:\/\/mmfidawla.com\/fr\/2021\/10\/11\/interview-with-charbel-nahhas\/' title='Lier vers : Charbel Nahas : \u00ab\u2009Le nouveau gouvernement libanais est dangereux\u2009\u00bb'>Charbel Nahas : \u00ab\u2009Le nouveau gouvernement libanais est dangereux\u2009\u00bb<\/a><\/h3><\/header><\/div><footer class=\"entry-footer\"><\/footer><\/article><\/div><\/div><\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Charbel Nahas Ce nouveau gouvernement est dangereux, car il table sur le fait que les gens sont d\u00e9sesp\u00e9r\u00e9s, que la cellule financi\u00e8re a r\u00e9ussi \u00e0 mater la r\u00e9probation et que l\u2019ext\u00e9rieur a donn\u00e9 sa b\u00e9n\u00e9diction. 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